It really is. As an example, I present this:
- Tuesday, I asked you about what makes a death in comics work. In the comments, Gabesummers mentioned that one of his problems with DC is that most of their deaths seem to be so they can remove an old version of a character, and put in a hip, new one. I'd argue that these days most deaths at DC are Geoff Johns (and other writers) trying to show us how eeevil the bad guys are (Geoff, we get it. They're Nazis. You don't need to have them slaughter a family picnic.), but that's neither here nor there.
- I responded that it'd be nice to see new versions of heroes (or villains now that I think of it) arise in different ways, for example, the current version and the newbie slugging it out for the title (non-lethal combat, naturally), with the new kid proving themselves better (though you'd have to be careful not to do it in a way that humiliates the current version, or you'd really honk off their fans, and the new character is dead in the water before you begin) and claiming the title.
- Nothing Stops the Blob then wondered whether there had ever been such a situation.
- I remembered it happening in reverse, when Hal Jordan pummeled Guy Gardner and took his ring because, well, Hal Jordan is a dick (he's just sneakier about it than Guy, which is why he doesn't get called on it as much). Storm took down the more experienced Cyclops to claim leadership of the X-Men (without powers!), but she had prior experience running the team, and Cyke was distracted by thoughts of his wife and their kid (which is a way of making his loss more palatable to his fans I'd imagine.
- This morning I remembered that T'Challa lost the Black Panther title at one point during Priest's book, but I question how much that counts. I was reading the book, but I doubt that T'Challa suddenly became a background character, with the new guy getting all the focus and interacting with Reed Richards and the Avengers. T'Challa was still the star, just in a different identity (I think. Correct me if I'm wrong). Then, as I was reading the blogs this morning, Ragnell provided another possibility, when she mentioned that the third Star Sapphire defeated Carol Ferris to take the title (and her boyfriend). It does sound a bit like T'Challa's situation though, where Carol was still more of the focus than the person replacing her, but it's worth considering. And that brings us to now.
So I ask those of you who know the story better, do you think the Star Sapphire situation would meet the criteria? What about the Black Panther story? Are there any other examples you can think of? As for me, I'm leaving town to visit my board game playing friends again. Later.
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7 comments:
I know it doesn't count as "fighting for the title", but I did like how recently, in "Death of Captain America: Captain America", Hawkeye got to peek in on the new 'Hawkeye', and was ticked about it until told that Cap had let her use it. At which point he goes looking for another identity. Classy.
ebony bishop: Agreed. That was a pretty nice moment. Too bad Iron man had to catch up and break up the conversation.
There was the issue of Starman (Will Payton variety) that had David Knight (also Starman and son of the original) come to town with the purpose of beating the tar out of the guy who "stole" his name. They eventually teamed up and while neither one gave up the name, they had a mutual respect. I think David Knight even admitted (after his death) that he thought Will Payton was a better hero than he had been.
jason: Two Starmans running around? That had to confuse the criminal element.
cal would beta ray bill fall into this catorgorey??? of a newer guy taking the mentel before the heroe died?? i cant recall it all but i vaguely rember bill poping up and bein the new thunder god..im not sure if thor was a frog at this time...but i rember thor bein thor but that beta ray bill showed he was also worthy and he took over the thunder god...and speaking of that...new mutants annual 10 (i think) loki gave a powerless storm a new mojihn(sp??) hammer to be the new thunder god. but i dont recal any fights between the old guy and the new guy ..ex:storm vs thor..or beta ray bill vs thor.
ok maybe marvel is just as bad hahahah but marvel never replaced thier flagship guy..wait!!!! unless we count peter durring the clone sage...ohh and captin america and us agent..or capitan marvel (becoming binary ) and photon...darn it and thowe power pack kids swapped names and powers like they were hand me downs... hahaha ouch i guess i need to think more before going off on a tangent about how dc kills its main guys and puts newbies in the cosutmes hahahahaha but hey at least marvel killed off ben riley and got peter back in the spider suit.
and i got a shout out!!woot!!
gabesummers
gabesumers: Well, it's not like you wrong about DC doing what they do, and it feels like they've done more of it (or maybe they just do a lot of it at the same time, and Marvel spreads it out?)
You're right, Beta Ray Bill and Thor did actually fight once, and Thor lost the hammer, turned into Don Blake, and got knocked out, while Bill took the hammer. Then they had anactual battle to see who got the hammer and Bill won that fight. He never officially took over for Thor, but he got his own hammer, and he did wield the power of Thor for awhile, so he's at least close.
I can't really say about the Storm situation though, i've never read it.
Mua ha ha, my name has finally been mentioned in the main post. First "Reporting on Marvels and Legends", then the WORLD. ALL WILL KNEEL BEFORE DOOOOOM... er, ahem...
Beta Ray Bill is a great example, especially because he is genuinely a good guy (er... robot horse thing), who just happens to have the hammer of Thor and doesn't want to give it up to some random human. The guilt, or at least the regret, is what makes it awesome.
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