When I was in the comic store on Wednesday, I happened to run into Len, and he asked what I'd picked up that week. I showed him Amazing Spider-Girl #10, with Carnage there on the cover, and grimaced as I explained that DeFalco seems to think any character can be part of a good story. Len wisely opined that it isn't a necessarily bad idea to think that, and the more I've thought about these last few days (and I've thought on it a lot, as I've been trying to piece this post together since about Thursday), the more I agree with Len, and by extension, DeFalco.
Of course, the tradeoff to for the "every character can be the star of a good story" belief is that it may not be true. The character may be so poorly conceived or thought out, that they aren't capable of being the focal point of a good story. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but they're probably out there. Or the writer isn't capable of writing that good story. Much as I like Tom DeFalco's work, that is certainly something to consider, since he does have his limitations.
It seems like a fair trade, though. Because you never know, at any time a writer could put together a story that gives a hitherto unappealing character a second chance with you, where you can learn to appreciate them in a way you hadn't before. Or perhaps it's a character you've never seen before, and the story makes you go "Hey! I like Character T! I want to read more stuff about them!" I've kind of had this reaction to Busiek's Prankster in Superman, though I haven't yet bought any issues yet (buying Superman comics goes against my general nature, I guess). But I didn't know anything about Prankster, now I think he's a pretty interesting fellow.
I can't really think of a good way to wrap this up, other than to say I do prefer the "all characters have potential" to the the "lower-tier characters are primarily useful as dead bodies for Big Events" that you see sometimes. After all, if you want a body count to indicate how dire the threat is, that's what generic characters - civilians, cops, SHIELD, AIM, etc., - are for. No times been invested fleshing them out, so they can be offed rather neatly, and if you want to create someone like say, Bob, Agent of HYDRA, then you would just have to say that he survived the Massacre of Many HYDRA Guys That Shows This Is Totally Serious. And if you're do want to off an established character, at least do it in a way where it needed to be that character that died. For example, I'm not sure the Death of Harry Osborn works with many characters other than Harry Osborn, given all the set up DeMatteis had invested in exploring Harry's inner struggle with his demons, how it mirrors Peter's self-doubts, how Harry's troubles hurt affect those around him. It was a story basically built specifically for Harry Osborn, and probably would have needed major alterations to work for almost any other Spidey character.
I guess what I'm getting at here is that even though I wasn't sure I was glad to see Carnage again, I do appreciate the effort on the creative team's part.
Showing posts with label carnage. Show all posts
Showing posts with label carnage. Show all posts
Sunday, July 15, 2007
Thursday, June 14, 2007
Warped Reflections
Once upon a time, I liked Carnage. Not like I rooted for him, but that he was a cool, extreme villain, and therefore awesome. It was the early '90s, I was younger, and considerably dumber. Still, there is one purpose Carnage served that I still find interesting, to a limited extent.
In Spider-Man Unlimited #2, we have reached the final chapter of the Maximum Carnage saga, where Carnage and a bunch of other extreme villains have killed lots of people and whomped on third-string heroes because the big guns were otherwise occupied for one reason or another. Carnage is feeling shaky after being blasted with a Magna-Illuminizer (spelling?), essentially a "happy feelings" gun. I'm not kidding. Suffice it to say, happy feelings freaked Carnage the hell out, and he starts running over the city, moving to places of significance farther and farther back in his past, with an angry Venom and a busted up Spidey on his tail.
Unsurprisingly, Venom wants Carnage dead, Spidey wants him captured. The two end up fighting it out in the orphanage where Cletus Kasady grew up (While Carnage fled. Way to go, guys). Venom keeps insisting that Carnage must die, while Spidey mocks him for obsessing. Venom says that he must stop Carnage because the symbiote came from him, thus Carnage is his responsibility, every innocent Kasady hurts is on his head. Spidey responds that he understands, because that's how he feels about Venom. Venom is, of course, flabbergasted by this, because he 'protects the innocent!', leading Spidey to think about how from where he stands, there's only a thin line of sanity between Venom and Carnage. And that was the idea that intrigued me.
I started thinking about how Venom is Spider-Man, if viewed in a funhouse mirror. Visually, Venom is a hyper-muscled Spider-Man. The black costume that could be quite intimidating, has been made frightening with the addition of that tongue, the claws, and the huge pointy teeth. At that time, they both wanted to protect, but Venom was willing (eager) to kill, while Spider-Man wouldn't even have killed a man he despised (Norman Osborn), let alone random criminals. Peter takes responsibility for the death of his uncle, because he didn't capture the thief who later shot Ben, the action which shaped the hero he became. Conversely, Eddie became Venom precisely because he doesn't take responsibility for his own failings. It's Spider-Man's fault for making Brock's life a mess, because Spidey captured the real Sin-Eater, exposing the one Brock had exclusive interviews with as a fake.
Oddly, since becoming Venom, Brock did develop a since of responsibility, often making sure no bystanders were caught in his attempts to kill Spider-Man, but still he blames Spidey for his mistakes. They're both still hung up on a past event, but it drives Peter to be a better hero, to not let others suffer because he doesn't act. Brock is still too fixated on blaming Spider-Man, to get to a point where maybe he can focus more on the "protector" part of "Lethal Protector". Even when he made a truce with Spidey, it doesn't seem to be because he's stopped blaming Spider-Man, so much as he finally realized that Spider-Man does protect the innocent, and so killing him would be bad. That qualifies as progress, but it's questionable how far Brock can move forward if he's always blaming another for his failings. It makes it easy to fall back on that excuse when other things go wrong.
Carnage seemed to be like looking at the reflection in a funhouse mirror, reflected in another funhouse mirror. The symbiote looks less like a costume, more like an actual living being, with loose flowing strands moving about at all times. It can morph it all manners of blades and projectiles, something Venom showed no ability for (beyond making webbing). The colors shift, back a little more towards Spider-Man's red costume, but with black still playing a part. The black in the symbiote could almost be seen as the web pattern from the red-and-blue costume, warped into a series of random lines. Additionally, Carnage seems to be Venom with no morals whatsoever. Whereas Venom simply lacks mercy for criminals and Spider-Man, Carnage possesses no mercy, period. He kills everyone, indiscriminately, reveling in how high he can pile the bodies. He doesn't concern himself with whether people intervene in his slaughter, because he would kill those people eventually, anyway.
Whereas Peter lost his parents on a super-secret spy mission early in life, but had Uncle Ben and Aunt May to love him, and Eddie Brock lost his mother, and was left with a demanding, unsupportive father, Kasady had a mother killed by his father, and possibly a grandmother that he killed (apparently he likes to change up the story he tells the shrinks from one time to the next). From a situation where the loss of loving parents was mitigated by loving relatives, it just went downhill as we pass through the mirrors from one character to the next.
That was pretty much the extent of my interest in Carnage, as someone whose existence and activities troubled Venom, as much as Venom troubled Spidey. Characters that can make the protagonist question how far apart they really are can be kind of fun, in limited doses. Unfortunately, Marvel kind of went overboard on Carnage, and I'm left thinking he would have been better off as a one-shot villain, maybe someone to convince Venom to tone himself down.
In Spider-Man Unlimited #2, we have reached the final chapter of the Maximum Carnage saga, where Carnage and a bunch of other extreme villains have killed lots of people and whomped on third-string heroes because the big guns were otherwise occupied for one reason or another. Carnage is feeling shaky after being blasted with a Magna-Illuminizer (spelling?), essentially a "happy feelings" gun. I'm not kidding. Suffice it to say, happy feelings freaked Carnage the hell out, and he starts running over the city, moving to places of significance farther and farther back in his past, with an angry Venom and a busted up Spidey on his tail.
Unsurprisingly, Venom wants Carnage dead, Spidey wants him captured. The two end up fighting it out in the orphanage where Cletus Kasady grew up (While Carnage fled. Way to go, guys). Venom keeps insisting that Carnage must die, while Spidey mocks him for obsessing. Venom says that he must stop Carnage because the symbiote came from him, thus Carnage is his responsibility, every innocent Kasady hurts is on his head. Spidey responds that he understands, because that's how he feels about Venom. Venom is, of course, flabbergasted by this, because he 'protects the innocent!', leading Spidey to think about how from where he stands, there's only a thin line of sanity between Venom and Carnage. And that was the idea that intrigued me.
I started thinking about how Venom is Spider-Man, if viewed in a funhouse mirror. Visually, Venom is a hyper-muscled Spider-Man. The black costume that could be quite intimidating, has been made frightening with the addition of that tongue, the claws, and the huge pointy teeth. At that time, they both wanted to protect, but Venom was willing (eager) to kill, while Spider-Man wouldn't even have killed a man he despised (Norman Osborn), let alone random criminals. Peter takes responsibility for the death of his uncle, because he didn't capture the thief who later shot Ben, the action which shaped the hero he became. Conversely, Eddie became Venom precisely because he doesn't take responsibility for his own failings. It's Spider-Man's fault for making Brock's life a mess, because Spidey captured the real Sin-Eater, exposing the one Brock had exclusive interviews with as a fake.
Oddly, since becoming Venom, Brock did develop a since of responsibility, often making sure no bystanders were caught in his attempts to kill Spider-Man, but still he blames Spidey for his mistakes. They're both still hung up on a past event, but it drives Peter to be a better hero, to not let others suffer because he doesn't act. Brock is still too fixated on blaming Spider-Man, to get to a point where maybe he can focus more on the "protector" part of "Lethal Protector". Even when he made a truce with Spidey, it doesn't seem to be because he's stopped blaming Spider-Man, so much as he finally realized that Spider-Man does protect the innocent, and so killing him would be bad. That qualifies as progress, but it's questionable how far Brock can move forward if he's always blaming another for his failings. It makes it easy to fall back on that excuse when other things go wrong.
Carnage seemed to be like looking at the reflection in a funhouse mirror, reflected in another funhouse mirror. The symbiote looks less like a costume, more like an actual living being, with loose flowing strands moving about at all times. It can morph it all manners of blades and projectiles, something Venom showed no ability for (beyond making webbing). The colors shift, back a little more towards Spider-Man's red costume, but with black still playing a part. The black in the symbiote could almost be seen as the web pattern from the red-and-blue costume, warped into a series of random lines. Additionally, Carnage seems to be Venom with no morals whatsoever. Whereas Venom simply lacks mercy for criminals and Spider-Man, Carnage possesses no mercy, period. He kills everyone, indiscriminately, reveling in how high he can pile the bodies. He doesn't concern himself with whether people intervene in his slaughter, because he would kill those people eventually, anyway.
Whereas Peter lost his parents on a super-secret spy mission early in life, but had Uncle Ben and Aunt May to love him, and Eddie Brock lost his mother, and was left with a demanding, unsupportive father, Kasady had a mother killed by his father, and possibly a grandmother that he killed (apparently he likes to change up the story he tells the shrinks from one time to the next). From a situation where the loss of loving parents was mitigated by loving relatives, it just went downhill as we pass through the mirrors from one character to the next.
That was pretty much the extent of my interest in Carnage, as someone whose existence and activities troubled Venom, as much as Venom troubled Spidey. Characters that can make the protagonist question how far apart they really are can be kind of fun, in limited doses. Unfortunately, Marvel kind of went overboard on Carnage, and I'm left thinking he would have been better off as a one-shot villain, maybe someone to convince Venom to tone himself down.
Tuesday, June 13, 2006
To Hold The Line. . . Or Erase It?
I. . . SAY. . . THEE. . . NAY!!! That's right, just like Skurge at Gjallerbru, I'm going to hold the line against the forces of Hela, Goddess of Death. Of course, by "forces of Hela", I mean DC bloggers. No, not because they're hideous monsters! Because we're that damn outnumbered! But that's not what this post is about.
I'm talking Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #9. I've been wondering if I've been too hard on this "Hobgoblin" storyline. I mean, it's not mystical stuff, it's not Civil War related, he's actually fighting a villain right? So what's my problem? I think I'm disappointed that's it's another grudge battle. 'Hobby' is pissed at her dad, but she's going to take it out on Peter Parker. Just from an enjoyment standpoint, I think I'd have preferred a Booster Gold situation, Hobgoblin comes back in time to steal valuable artifacts, like a DVD copy of "The Rundown" because, in 2211, Christopher Walken's greatness is even more revered than it is now. As well it should be.
When I first started reading X-Factor, I saw a number of reviews that said Peter David has a tendency to get too "cute" or try to be "too clever". I didn't understand at the time, which makes no sense, given that I've read through some of my old posts at times, and I could see that I was trying too hard to be funny, and that at the time, I was sure I was being brilliant, so I've got that in common with PAD, I guess. Anyway, with the introduction of the "retcon bomb", I know what people meant. I mean, if he called it a "paradox bomb" or something, that could have worked, but 'retcon'?
Still, whether it's too over-the-top or not, it does provide an interesting question: if you were given access to the universes of Marvel (or DC), and could throw one of those at any character, who would you choose?
If it was DC, I'd pick Ma Hunkle. I'm kidding! Doomsday. He's a one-note character, created for the simple purpose of killing Superman. Once he succeeded, he was dead, and all was well. Then we found out that Superman is apparently too powerful to stay dead, and Doomsday was completely useless. My only misgiving is that story prompted the creation of Superboy, Steel, and probably all the "cool" '90s versions of heroes - Connor Hawke, Jean Paul Valley, probably Scarlet Spider. Hopefully those characters could be created under different circumstances.
Of course, if they had left Superman in the after-life (which I think makes DC more interesting), I'd have to pick someone different. Guy Gardner? No. I don't know, I'm not well-versed enough in DC lore, so let's switch to Marvel.
First off, it's not Joe Quesada. Fictional characters only please. besides, I got other plans for that schmoe. No, the correct answer is "Carnage". I mean, what did he give us?
1) A more extreme version of Venom. Oh goody, because the guy that talks about eating Spidey's liver was going far enough.
2) He gave them the chance to introduce Shriek. Yippee.
3) He gave Marvel a reason to put Venom back in play. As of Amazing Spider-Man #348, Venom thought he'd killed Spider-Man on a deserted island, and had decided to live in peace there, bringing a decent conclusion to a 50-issue stretch that featured at least 10 issues with Venom. Carnage forced Spider-Man to go to Venom for help, thus letting Venom know Webs wasn't dead, giving Venom a reason to go after Spidey again.
4) Wait, why did he need Venom? The Human Torch can fly out to the island with him, but he can't cruise around New York and help Spidey fight Carnage?!
5) He helped push forward the symbiote explosion, which lead to at least six characters having symbiotes, giving Venom more people to squabble with besides the other "extreme" heroes.
6) Kasady being completely evil let Marvel make Venom out as a hero. Sorry "lethal protector", which is the '90s definition of "hero".
7) "Maximum Carnage", because the Spider-Man history was crying out for a 14-part series where a bunch of loonies beat up on third-string heroes while killing hundreds of civilians.
Look at that list. Is there a single damn thing up there that is any good? Sure "Maximum Carnage" gave me fodder for this post, but that's not enough. So for being completely worthless, Cletus Kasady, you get a retcon bomb in the face! And now, none of that stuff happened.
I'm talking Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #9. I've been wondering if I've been too hard on this "Hobgoblin" storyline. I mean, it's not mystical stuff, it's not Civil War related, he's actually fighting a villain right? So what's my problem? I think I'm disappointed that's it's another grudge battle. 'Hobby' is pissed at her dad, but she's going to take it out on Peter Parker. Just from an enjoyment standpoint, I think I'd have preferred a Booster Gold situation, Hobgoblin comes back in time to steal valuable artifacts, like a DVD copy of "The Rundown" because, in 2211, Christopher Walken's greatness is even more revered than it is now. As well it should be.
When I first started reading X-Factor, I saw a number of reviews that said Peter David has a tendency to get too "cute" or try to be "too clever". I didn't understand at the time, which makes no sense, given that I've read through some of my old posts at times, and I could see that I was trying too hard to be funny, and that at the time, I was sure I was being brilliant, so I've got that in common with PAD, I guess. Anyway, with the introduction of the "retcon bomb", I know what people meant. I mean, if he called it a "paradox bomb" or something, that could have worked, but 'retcon'?
Still, whether it's too over-the-top or not, it does provide an interesting question: if you were given access to the universes of Marvel (or DC), and could throw one of those at any character, who would you choose?
If it was DC, I'd pick Ma Hunkle. I'm kidding! Doomsday. He's a one-note character, created for the simple purpose of killing Superman. Once he succeeded, he was dead, and all was well. Then we found out that Superman is apparently too powerful to stay dead, and Doomsday was completely useless. My only misgiving is that story prompted the creation of Superboy, Steel, and probably all the "cool" '90s versions of heroes - Connor Hawke, Jean Paul Valley, probably Scarlet Spider. Hopefully those characters could be created under different circumstances.
Of course, if they had left Superman in the after-life (which I think makes DC more interesting), I'd have to pick someone different. Guy Gardner? No. I don't know, I'm not well-versed enough in DC lore, so let's switch to Marvel.
First off, it's not Joe Quesada. Fictional characters only please. besides, I got other plans for that schmoe. No, the correct answer is "Carnage". I mean, what did he give us?1) A more extreme version of Venom. Oh goody, because the guy that talks about eating Spidey's liver was going far enough.
2) He gave them the chance to introduce Shriek. Yippee.
3) He gave Marvel a reason to put Venom back in play. As of Amazing Spider-Man #348, Venom thought he'd killed Spider-Man on a deserted island, and had decided to live in peace there, bringing a decent conclusion to a 50-issue stretch that featured at least 10 issues with Venom. Carnage forced Spider-Man to go to Venom for help, thus letting Venom know Webs wasn't dead, giving Venom a reason to go after Spidey again.
4) Wait, why did he need Venom? The Human Torch can fly out to the island with him, but he can't cruise around New York and help Spidey fight Carnage?!
5) He helped push forward the symbiote explosion, which lead to at least six characters having symbiotes, giving Venom more people to squabble with besides the other "extreme" heroes.
6) Kasady being completely evil let Marvel make Venom out as a hero. Sorry "lethal protector", which is the '90s definition of "hero".
7) "Maximum Carnage", because the Spider-Man history was crying out for a 14-part series where a bunch of loonies beat up on third-string heroes while killing hundreds of civilians.
Look at that list. Is there a single damn thing up there that is any good? Sure "Maximum Carnage" gave me fodder for this post, but that's not enough. So for being completely worthless, Cletus Kasady, you get a retcon bomb in the face! And now, none of that stuff happened.
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